Credit overgranting

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Timo Strunk
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Message 5521 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012, 16:03:39 UTC

There has been a change in the runtime estimation algorithm and therefore high credits are granted. This will be only during this week. Throughout the week we will reduce the credits for the high yielding workunits again and again.
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Senilix

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Message 5530 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012, 22:24:43 UTC - in response to Message 5521.  

I've got a wu with an estimated computation size of 310342813 GFLOPs and an estimated runtime of 10749 hours - so i guess your algorithm needs more changes.
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Profile Sabroe_SMC

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Message 5531 - Posted: 11 Feb 2012, 23:00:52 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2012, 23:07:34 UTC

http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/result.php?resultid=62749137
Is this the right thing: 4 WUs with each 11.000.000 Credits??????????????
http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/results.php?hostid=114006
And its not the only one. The users Kirdnem(Vince) and [TiDC] Chulma are benefitted from the Creditplus.
Please correct this abnormal behaviour asap!
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chillwater

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Message 5533 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 0:54:15 UTC

Also: poem is using 0 to 15 percent of my 4850 and after two hours there is five thousand something days remaining. Aborted and next wu did same. Just so you know.
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ConflictingEmotions

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Message 5534 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 3:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 5531.  

I do not see any problem here because the CPU run times are not really unusual - low integer count is probably an issue here. This is just how CreditNew works. Note that the credits are dropping as expected. If you have a problem with that then deal with the Boinc developers. See the 'Number Crunching' thread titled 'Credits' for more details.
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jcworks

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Message 5535 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 7:14:39 UTC
Last modified: 12 Feb 2012, 7:58:15 UTC

Ich habe soeben alle POEM-workunits gestoppt und ich habe POEM selbst gestoppt.
Es ist eine derartige Verarschung an allen Crunchern der Vergangenheit, dass es das Projekt nicht verdient hat noch länger unterstützt zu werden wenn dieser Zustand nicht korrigiert wird.
Ich habe keine Lust für eine WU über 10.000.000 credits zu bekommen !! Das ist Irrsinn!
Und.. es zeigt die Gleichgültigkeit des Betreibers! Statt den Missstand zu beheben kündigt er noch an daß das komplette System verarscht wird!


I just stopped all POEM-workunits and I have stoppt POEM at all.
It is such a piss take at all crunchers in the past, that the project does not even longer deserve the support unless these conditions are not corrected.
I do not want to get a WU with more than 10,000,000 credits!! This is insane!
And .. It shows the indifference of the operator! Rather than resolve the grievance, he even announced that, so that the complete system is fooled!


What I am talking about: http://www.abload.de/img/poem-irrsinn-20120212mtjru.gif
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Message 5536 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 8:06:27 UTC

Mit so einer exorbitanten Creditvergabe habe ich nicht gerechnet.
Da macht ein Team an einem Tag fast so viel wie die Top-Teams über Jahre.
Würde mich nicht wundern wenn sich jcworks noch viele andere Cruncher anschließen.
~12.600sec bei einer CPU bringen stolze "83" Credits.
Ohne Worte?!?!!!!!!


Gruß

D.U.
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Profile L@MiR
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Message 5539 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 8:35:25 UTC - in response to Message 5536.  

RESET IT! NOW!!!!!
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Message 5540 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 8:38:33 UTC - in response to Message 5539.  

Ich überlege mir gleich mal zu beantragen das dieses Projekt aus den Boinc Stats fliegt. Das ist ja untragbar!
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Profile Norman_RKN
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Message 5542 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 9:14:55 UTC

wie Timo geschrieben hat gibt es momentan noch etwas am algorithmus zu tun.
es werden regelmässig DB backups gemacht und die extrem hohen werte werden wieder zur gegebener zeit an normalwerte angegelichen. die user die extrem viele punkte kassiert haben bekommen die auch wieder abgeholt.

es ist WE und die jungs von POEM/KIT haben auch noch privatleben und etwas erholung verdient.
einfach mal abwarten und die leute die nächsten tage weiterarbeiten lassen.

alles wird gut - keep cool ;)



Rechenkraft.net e. V.
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canapa[Toscana]

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Message 5543 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 9:17:20 UTC
Last modified: 12 Feb 2012, 9:42:40 UTC

http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/results.php?hostid=114076&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=

too many credits here and other 2/3 crunchers.
millions credit for only a wu

reset or goodbye poem

ps
if they are "cheating" please reset all the credits
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Message 5544 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 9:24:26 UTC - in response to Message 5543.  

It's best to manually correct those credits, or many people will be unhappy with this. And not only in this project.

Once again you are punished for not using fixed credit per WU. It always bites back, in a ways you cannot predict.
I hope that after few more distasters you will learn, that simple algorithms, like fixed credit per WU, are a little bit more predictible.
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Profile Sabroe_SMC

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Message 5546 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 9:54:55 UTC - in response to Message 5544.  

It's best to manually correct those credits, or many people will be unhappy with this. And not only in this project.

Once again you are punished for not using fixed credit per WU. It always bites back, in a ways you cannot predict.
I hope that after few more distasters you will learn, that simple algorithms, like fixed credit per WU, are a little bit more predictible.


Signed
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Profile p3d-cluster

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Message 5547 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 9:55:41 UTC - in response to Message 5542.  

wie Timo geschrieben hat gibt es momentan noch etwas am algorithmus zu tun.
es werden regelmässig DB backups gemacht und die extrem hohen werte werden wieder zur gegebener zeit an normalwerte angegelichen. die user die extrem viele punkte kassiert haben bekommen die auch wieder abgeholt.

es ist WE und die jungs von POEM/KIT haben auch noch privatleben und etwas erholung verdient.
einfach mal abwarten und die leute die nächsten tage weiterarbeiten lassen.

alles wird gut - keep cool ;)





Natürlich haben die auch WE, für die Zukunft sollten solche Aktionen nicht unbedingt über das WE gestartet werden.


Gruß

D.U.
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pvh

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Message 5549 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 10:36:01 UTC

High credits, what high credits?? If anything my credits are lower than usual, certainly not higher!
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Profile Christopher Herr
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Message 5558 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 18:10:32 UTC - in response to Message 5549.  

High credits, what high credits?? If anything my credits are lower than usual, certainly not higher!

I second that, as I have not been given any of those WUs with enormous "net gain". ;-P

Btw I do not know why people are complaining all the time...
Finally a biomedical project, unlike others, managed to get an AMD/ATI GPU client production ready and distributed AND it works and pays quite well compared to other biomedical projects which do not have a GPU client at all or for AMD/ATI a ridiculous BitCoining client I will NEVER run! And nonetheless all people are complaining that this is unfair compared to CPUs.. Gals and guys, it has always been the case that GPUs are much more able to compute massively parallel/concurrently in comparison to CPUs, that is the reason they are used in BOINC and for making some types of research possible in the first place...

Okay, there is not yet (!!!) a working NVidia GPU client for POEM, that might be considered unfair, I see that and I could use my NVidia here as well...

I also see that nine to twelve million credits per WU are tremendously exaggerated and need to be rectified just like the "overgranting" at the beginning of POEM GPU was adjusted afterwards. Beginning of Monday there will be fixed credits, so optimizations will finally pay out, I hope, and not be punished by the darn creditNew system!!!

It is no doubt unfair single volunteers were able to make hundreds of millions in a single day or over this weekend if this will just be ignored! I have been running POEM for the last two months exclusively on all my AMD/ATI GPUs (with a short break for SIMAP) and have gone quite well doing so...

But leaving the credits "given away like candy" would simply be a slap in the face of all GPU crunchers here (including me), if those hundreds of millions would remain granted to the respective volunteers!

This is not a matter of personally disliking or disrespecting those "fortunate" volunteers for me, please keep that in mind! It is a simple matter of justice, in a manner of speaking...
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Message 5561 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 19:50:30 UTC

Christopher Herr [TeaM]
You do not understand. Most of the complaints NOT about the superiority of the GPU over the CPU on points in a few dozen times (which is normal if it is equal to the difference in their true performance).
But about a glitch in the credit system(last week) when the GPU tasks given to several millions credits for each (1) WU. Like ~100 000 times more than CPU WUs (whereas the difference in the performance is ~ 20-150 times "only")

And about the strange work of the CreditNew system on GPU WUs when credited points are proportional to the time of the computation, rather than the volume of of useful work done. If you slow down your computer/GPU - you get more points for the WU. This is nonsense.

All this will be corrected by introducing a fixed credits (for each type of WUs). At the same time a huge advantage of GPU over the CPU will not disappear. Just compare a fixed credits on CPU and GPU:
from 20 to 113 cr per WU on CPU
and 2925 cr per WU on GPU
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Mad_Max

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Message 5562 - Posted: 12 Feb 2012, 20:17:42 UTC

With fixed credit GPU vs CPU ratio seems to be OK
for example my CPU core (Athlon II X2 @ 3.3 Ghz ~= 10 GFLOPS peak) do rigiddock WU in ~12800 sec average. Each WU will be granted 113 fixed credits.
This is equivalent to ~ 760 Cr/day/core (if work 24/7 nonstop at full load)
My GPU (ATI Radeon HD 5750) do gpucrystal WUs in ~4500 sec average (if i leave one CPU core dedicated on feeding GPU, then GPU load ~60%). Each will be granted fixed 2925 Cr
This is equivalent to ~ 56,000 Cr/day
Or ~74 times more if compare to CPU WUs.

This is near equal to the difference in performance of this these concrete CPU and GPU:
CPU ~ 10 GFLOPS (at 100% load)
GPU ~ 600 GFLOPS (at ~60% load)
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Message 5564 - Posted: 13 Feb 2012, 1:34:23 UTC - in response to Message 5546.  

It's best to manually correct those credits, or many people will be unhappy with this. And not only in this project.

Once again you are punished for not using fixed credit per WU. It always bites back, in a ways you cannot predict.
I hope that after few more distasters you will learn, that simple algorithms, like fixed credit per WU, are a little bit more predictible.


Signed


Signed

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Profile Kirdnem(Vince)

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Message 5565 - Posted: 13 Feb 2012, 7:27:14 UTC
Last modified: 13 Feb 2012, 7:44:19 UTC

I am writing this to assure all the other users that the extreme credit awarded to me over the last 3 days (over 1.6 billion) is of no way my fault.
Prior to the Abnormal Credit I was holding down 4th place with 34 Million + credits
I am a power user running 7x ATI high end cards and have made no changes to my software in the last month.
I expect that credit re ajustment will be done but i assure you all i have not cheated in any way and take offence at any inkling to that effect.
Fixed credit suits me fine as this will be to my advantage as i currenty complete 25+ GPU/Hour ........ catch me if you can !
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